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Bowling Evolution Forum - Bowling - Questions, questions, QUESTIONS! Questions...

Questions, questions, QUESTIONS! Questions...

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Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
ChipmunkBowl

I think I've tried answering this before... But layouts aren't that easy to recommend.

When I drill a ball for a customer, I have to take his whole game into consideration, from what he already has in his bag, to how he releases the ball.

For anyone passed the Beginner level, a book layout isn't going to cut it. That's why recommending a layout online is so difficult. There are people here I create layouts for, but only because i know their game...

Asking for an intermediate level layout, or higher, here is like walking into a shoe store and saying you'd like some shoes, without giving the size, style or price range.

What I can do is tell you what's safe.

If you buy a new ball specifically for throwing it two handed, then lift the measurements from the ball most similar to it, and add 0.5" to both.

Have a solid laid out 4 x 3 + 2? Buy a solid and lay it out 4.5 x 3.5 + 2.5.

A two-handed delivery adds revs, and decreases speed, so you need a longer pin, and softer break angle to maintain control.

Hope that helps...
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
I just want your opinion.

Well I am asking around a lot of people and seeing what they are saying. Its that time for a new ball for me. This time I mean NIB new, not a used "new" ball.

I love my evolve, and striking motion. But the problem with them is that.. Since they are dull they absorb too much oil too fast, and react 100% different then they used to. So I decided I am just going to keep them how they are now and look for a good ball.

I am not talking house shots now. I am not doing a house shot league this year, only sport shots. So now I want your opinion i do not care about the company, just looking a for a ball that will have a pretty good hook potential and that is not really dull. My playmaker is super old compared to my evolve and it has more backend then my evolve now.

So the guy in my shop got me really thinking about getting a VirtualEnergy. He said not the gravity because it will do the same as the evolve and striking motion. I am throwing 17 mph with 250-350 rev rate depeding how and where I am throwing it. But he said the VE has a strong core with not the strongest cover which will give me what I need on a 40ft+ and will not absorb soo much oil and die soo early.

I am not looking for a super high hooking ball, just one to give me a nice little something somethin. I was at kegel and we bowled on that new 41ft pattern they used on tv for the first week, and I was on 12, with the ball at 10 at the arrows and I was literally throwing at right at the pocket, while most other people were still getting some good backend. (This was with my evolve) then I whipped out my playmaker (same layout as evolve) and I was crossing over... So I can see what my shop was saying about not getting a dull ball. I said the VG and he said no right away. So yea, just want some of your thoughts.
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
bowlerboi26

What is it exactly that you want my opinion on? A shiny ball or something?
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
A shiny ball that will last with high hook potential.
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
bowlerboi26

First off... I'm not sure about your hang up on oil absorption. Unless you're bowling dozens, and dozens of games a week, without regular cleaning... Then the absorption effect shouldn't be that noticeable.

Second... This is THE YEAR for pearls and polish. Every manufacturer has dropped something shiny and snappy into their premium lines.

Ebonite has the Lanebreaker, Hammer has the Burn, Columbia Bedlam, Roto's Nomad Pearl, Storm's Reign... As much as I don't like the big "B", they have the Python which is an incredibly good value for the power you get.

The Storm Reign is a big seller... It's another of Storm's long, strong (yawn), and reliable releases.

When we demo'd the Columbia line-up, the Bedlam was a huge hit, and lots of people snapped them up... But I don't see many on the lanes.

The Lanebreaker is by far my favourite... It's just so versatile for a polished ball with a cone core.

The Hammer Raw Hammer Burn (other than sounding like a rap lyric), is a close second in my book.

Usually on longer patterns, I go for the solids with snow tires... Throwing a polished ball on a medium heavy pattern over 39feet can be too unpredictable.

You may want to have your ball analyzed. You've got some strong equipment, and the only reason the Evolve would hit like a marshmallow would be that it's laid out wrong.

I just had my equipment checked by my pro, and we found that my track has migrated from High, to very low. I used to have a PAP "right" measurement of 4 3/8". Now it's about 3 1/4"... And I was wondering why my ball was picking up so early.

Get your PAP checked, clean your equipment, and when in doubt... Polish it out.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
Well I get all my stuff checked out and my...

evolve,raid,striking motion were all pretty dam close to the same layout.

So we talked it over for a long time about all different factors, and I ended up buying a BW Sting. They said with the right layout it will get the job done, they spent like 20 min just trying to layout the ball, they tried multiple layouts until they found a good one they really liked and thought would work.

When I tried it, it really was amazing. It did not have much hold at all on a house shot if i missed in the middle unlike the rest of my stuff. But I was not scared to throw this out at all, unlike my other stuff. So I am hoping this will help me get the job done on those longer patterns.
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
Member
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 276
Ok, I have trouble getting the ball to hook back when I am playing an inside line, have you got any suggestions to help me increase my revolutions? I am already throwing it very slowly and putting alot of axis rotation on it


NOTE: If you remember I used to bowl 2 handed at one point but stopped as it hurt.. a hell of a lot.
_______________
almost 2 years of bowling
average - 183
high game - 247 (practice) 258 (league)
high series - 627(203,210,214)
equipment :-
-Storm attitude shift
-Brunswick avalanche pearl
-Brunswick Target Zone
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
I was literally taken back by seeing a post notice in my email... Who knew people were still coming here?

ChipmunkBowl

REVS! All about the revs these days isn't it?

The quick answer to getting more revolutions out of your release is: "Hittin' it." My whole league refers to that final lift at the end of the release as Hittin' it. Make sure you omit the "g".

If you take a look at any "High Rev" player on the PBA, you'll notice the final snap at the very last moment of their release. Robert Smith being the most pronounced.

He starts with a very high backswing, and a cupped wrist position. At the top of his swing, his wrist is still fully flexed forward as the ball begins to drop. When the ball comes down to that critical flat point of the swing, Smith keeps it going down by unloading his wrist, letting the ball drop off his thumb, and then lifts through the ball to impart a ton of revs, and direct it onto the lane.

Now Robert Smith isn't Superman... He's not exceptionally stronger than any other bowler, or somehow more powerful. What he has is perfect timing. The last split seconds of his swing are timed so sharp, that the ball falls smoothly through the swing, and gets cranked without serious loft (unless that's his plan) in a smooth line onto the lane.

Hittin' it takes practice. You don't need a hardcore, cupped wrist position, and a backswing over your head. It's all timing.

To impart more revs on the ball, you need more lift from your fingers. A lot of people tend to come around the ball to try to push the rev rate up, but if your thumb comes out clean, and you pull straight up with your fingers, you'll find a very natural, and smooth way to crank it.

The issue most people face is the last second jerk. Your swing is smooth then when you hit it, the ball gets pulled back, or lofts to the arrows, and now you have a ball moving at 2mph and revving at 1000rpm.

The ball can't stop through the swing. If you're going to try cupping, then unloading with your wrist, you'll need to keep the ball moving smooth and direct through your swing.

I can't highlight the importance of that enough really. With practice, you'll find it easier and easier to really hit it hard and the bottom of your swing, and get it to rev up quickly.

Now here's my big warning.

Your equipment will become obsolete is you significantly increase your rev rate.

I went from a rev rate of under 250rpm, to the low 400's. Every ball I had suddenly started trying to roll at 30 feet. My layouts were not designed for a Super Rev Dominant bowler (about a 1.5 to 1.75 on the rev vs speed scale).

With my new Hittin' technique, my ball would break off the 5 board at 30 feet or skid 55 feet up the 15 board. I had to play a gutter to gutter line, and pray for no carrydown. The layouts and coverstocks I had just weren't strong enough to get back to the pocket on that line.

So I developed a more versatile swing and release to control my rev rate.

And that's the true key. Having a high rev rate is good... But it's not the key to your game. Figuring out how to crank it, but still being being able to hold back on the revs is absolutely crucial.

Always remember there's a certain bowler on the PBA tour who has one of the lowest rev rates out there, but yet he does manage to do quite well... Yeh... Walter Ray Williams Jr.

Average PBA tour rev rate: 330 - 360rpm
WRW Jr.: Under 300rpm.

Versatility and control... Not just hittin' the s@#t out of it on every roll.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
heyyy you again lol. Everything you just said makes perfect sense. My problem when trying to come around the ball more instead of coming up the back (which is what I like to do) everyone tells me I grab the ball. Is that because I am turning the ball to early? releasing it too late or early?

I have gotten a lot better playing these straight up lines, heres 2 ex:

house shot: went 257,238,186. First 2 I was playing a nice standing on 23- throwing over 12ish with my bash at the arrows nice down and in. Then you know they started changing and my straight up line wasent working, When I moved far enough left, I lost a lot of carry, and had to start swinging it.

I guess my question is, how to get more revs without losing all my accuracy. When its time for me to get around the ball, sometimes I grab it, other times I come out flatter and I just lose it =(
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
« Last edit by bowlerboi26 on Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:42 pm. »
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
bowlerboi26

"Coming around the ball" is not an idea you want to embrace. Coming around it means you're spinning, or helicoptering the ball. You need to work on the two major releases: up the back, and up the side. If people watching are telling you that you're grabbing it, they're probably seeing you release closer to the top of ball.

Having good flow, and a smooth release up the back of the ball will get the ball to into a roll earlier, and with less pop off the break. It's THE release for playing up the outside and in. If you want to move in, or get more side roll, you'll need to lift up the side of the ball. Either way you go, your fingers need to come out of the ball before they reach the top.

If you're grabbing it, your thumb hole may not be tight enough. It's a razor's edge to tread when it comes to your thumb. Too tight and you loft it top side, too loose and you'll need more pressure from your thumb to keep it on your hand during your downswing... and you loft it top side. The ball should fall off your thumb right near the end of your release, allowing you to lift with your fingers in a natural flowing motion.

Now let's get meta for a second.

A car can only do 3 things. Accelerate, brake, and turn. And the car can only do one of those things at a time. Something for all you young drivers to remember. When you're coming to a corner, you brake, then turn maintaining your speed, then accelerate once the turn is completed. Trying to mix any of these steps will lessen your control. If you accelerate and turn at the same time, you skid. If you brake and turn at the same time, you skid. If you accelerate and brake at the same time, it just makes a terrible smell.

Your wrist can only do 3 things. Flex, extend, and yaw. You can curl it (flex), stretch it (extend), or wave (yaw). Just like a car, it can only do ONE of these at a time. You need to control your wrist for your release to happen naturally.

When you "come around" the ball, you end up forcing your wrist to flex, extend, and yaw all in a microsecond, and there's not a soul on Earth that could control it. A wrist support, or positioner, helps by eliminating the extension and yaw variables (most let you flex a little). Accuracy is the key to bowling, and controlling your wrist during the release is the best way to increase accuracy. If you want to hit it consistently, lock your wrist throughout your release, and stay behind and under the ball.

Once you get that down pat... Then spend some time working on hitting the s@#t out of it at the bottom of your swing.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
Alright cool, how tight do you think a thumb hole should be. My newest one they kept it tight on me, and I grab that one. My evolve is big, and I feel like I have to squeeze it.

edit: also what do you mean by coming up the side?
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
« Last edit by bowlerboi26 on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:29 pm. »
Member
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 276
thanks for the advice.
My game is based around the hard and strait line with very low revs, but I can match up my revs and speed fairly well to give me good pin action. I don't feel I need the revs all the time it's just when I need to play inside, which is not very often. But being able to play in will certainly benefit me
_______________
almost 2 years of bowling
average - 183
high game - 247 (practice) 258 (league)
high series - 627(203,210,214)
equipment :-
-Storm attitude shift
-Brunswick avalanche pearl
-Brunswick Target Zone
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
ChipmunkBowl

If you can control your angle of release, and axis tilt well, then putting serious revs on it will increase pin carry. Matching the angle of your attack to the end of the oil pattern is the big step to averaging over 200.

Using a low rev rate makes a need for more accurate shots. When a ball hits the pins at a sub-200 rev rate, you rarely get pins hopping, so the right entry angle becomes even more important.

"Hitting it" can, and should, be done for any angle you take on. If you hit it while heading up the 5 board and in, you'll be astonished by the carry if you hit it straight up the back. People ten lanes down will jump from the crack of that strike.

bowlerboi26

#1 Your thumb is a very touchy subject... It's so user specific, that trying to put a list of criteria together for a good fit, is beyond difficult.

What I can tell you is that your thumb shouldn't be a major factor in your release. Your thumb is pretty much a hanger for the ball through your swing. Its influence on your rev rate is to slow it down, and it gives you more speed by allowing for an easier swing.

People fidget with their thumb hole, I sure do, a lot. Since it's just a hanger for the ball, you want to make sure it holds until the right moment for you.

If it's too loose, the ball comes off early, and crashes into the lane, or forces you to squeeze and grab it with your fingers, and thumb.

If it's too tight... You could end up flat on your stomach at the arrows Chuga style.

The way I know my thumb is in order is: If I place my ball on a table, holes up, then put my fingers in, then slide my thumb in. Now if I merely tense my hand, not squeeze, not grip, just hold my hand rigid as it is in the ball naturally... I should be able to lift the ball without the need to grip or grab.

I'm very careful with my thumb, I work on it whenever my shots don't feel right. I use a Turbo Switch-Grip for all my equipment now, and let me assure you, my Switch-Grip, Pro-Sport inserts, and black tape are more important than whichever ball I happen to be using. Whether it's my Clash for snapping up and in, or my Evolve for the inside lines... With my SG, inserts, and tape, EVERY ball feels the same, and lets me get on with making good shots, no matter what I'm throwing.

#2 What I mean by "coming up the side" can be seen in Chris Barnes approach. He quite literally holds the ball on the side, swings, and pulls up on the 3 o'clock/4:30 portion of the ball to impart some serious side spin. You can then compare that to WRW Jr.'s spare release, that is so perfectly "up the back", lifting up through the 6 o'clock part of the ball, you can hear it knock as it rolls over his thumb hole over and over.

Now I have to go test the new releases... Total Bedlam, Pure Swing, Invasion, and Reign of Fire. Oh and something really pretty called the Evil Siege, but they done gone and ruined it by sticking a big "B" on it. Still expecting it to be amazing though.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
« Last edit by s2dio on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:18 pm. »
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
Alright thanks man,. You and those "B" things lollol
_______________
16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
In case any of you haven't heard... The Storm Invasion was unanimously agreed upon to be described as "STOOPIT STRONG". I have never tested or even tried anything that is that strong... It makes the Resurgence look like plastic, it makes the Widows weep, the Ones NV'ous, and Cells turn into microbes. I can't imagine anyone using an Invasion for more than half a game. Maybe if you have a long pin layout, and if you polished it, and if your rev rate is around 150rpm.

The Pure Swing and Evil Siege are absolute magic though. I liked the Siege, even if it was a bit strong for me, but the Evil they brought out in it just makes it much more usable for longer stretches. But I had to be chased away from the Pure Swing with a stick... I loved the Resurgence, still do, the Pure Swing takes all the power of the "Swing Line", adds the shape of the Resurgence, and puts it all in a package you can use for multiple games... I moved 4 boards with my feet and 2 boards with my eyes over FOUR GAMES on a 39ft., THS @ 5:1. Spec-fricking-tacular.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Warren, MI
s2dio did you try the total bedlam? or hear anything about it?
_______________
High Game - 300
High Series - 803 (265, 238, 300)
Arsenal:Columbia Pure Swing, Storm Virtual Gravity, Raw Hammer Psycho, Columbia Big Shot
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
Nick101011

I was hoping someone wouldn't ask about that.

I was previously biased because I didn't like the original Bedlam. It was too much (almost identical to) Ebo's Lanebreaker. What really gets me is that in the buff that comes with it, they suggest sanding the surface to 4000, then polishing it... In other words: Turn it into an original Bedlam... If the reaction is too early or too strong.

Then why the heck did I buy it in the first place?

If they had gone the opposite way, and released the Total Bedlam first, maybe my opinion would've been different.

Unfortunately, the Total Bedlam is going up against the Reign of Fire (which is another head scratcher, Storm releasing 2 solids right on top of each other). Where the Total blasts off as soon as it sees any dry lane (I never managed to get it past 35ft, even using 3 different layouts), the RoF manages to break smoothly even if you throw it straight into the dry.

The Reign of Fire is very similar to the Ebo Evolve. It doesn't snap off the dry like a dragster, but instead creates a very strong transition to roll.

The Total Bedlam is a hook monster, it can see the Invasion in the distance, but the Total is just so unforgiving (much like the original) when it meets some friction. The Lanebreaker was way more predictable.

Comparing the Total Bedlam and Pure Swing is difficult, they're meant for completely different things... But no matter the situation, the Pure Swing did what you imagined it would. The Total Bedlam was a mystery after every release.

I've also thrown the Track 920A, and 715C.

In very quick summary, because I barely had 5 shots with each while I rolled 4 complete games with the Pure, 2 games each with the Invasion, RoF, Total Bedlam, Evil Siege, and C-System 3.5... The 920A is fun, but not nearly enough for its price point, the 715C is Jessica Simpson... Very, very pretty, but fundamentally pointless... Track's got some serious issues. Their releases are just too close, and to similar in reaction. I blame Ron Hickland.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 211
s2dio,

I've recently been practicing on the Junior Gold short pattern for what will be my last trip to the Junior Gold Championships in July. The problem is that I've been struggling mightily on short patterns. On pretty much any short pattern, I like to play outside (3 and out generally). However, I can't seem to get the ball to push past 30 feet, and I'm stuck looking at the Greek Church all day.

I've tried moving inside, but anything stronger than my Link goes bananas and won't even get to the right of the head pin. If I use anything weaker, it becomes a problem with angle, and I can't seem to carry.

My look is best from the outside, but I've got to be ABSOLUTELY perfect out there. Last tournament I bowled put out the Cheetah Pattern, and I went 166, 258, 202, 132, 158, 188, 216, 189 = -91, which was well below the cut at -2. That one stung, because it was a pretty big tournament for me, and I've been working tirelessly to see that it doesn't happen again.

Generally, I've got a little loft on the ball, and I like to stay behind the ball as much as I can, while playing outside. During those three middle games (that I averaged 159.3), I tried to move further inside to no avail, and I tried to loft the ball further down the lane, but it actually seemed to roll up even earlier.

Any suggestions?
_______________
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers..."
- Carl Sagan
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
TheKorean2908

First off... Could you hit me up with your short pattern ball list? And your average pin lengths? Just your preferred layout is fine... Then maybe I can get some insight on what could be done, whether equipment wise, or for your game.
_______________
"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 211
Get ready for a laugh, because I've got a few novelty bowling balls I'll pull out of the closet if I'm bowling on short.

Let's see... from least strong to strongest

Ebonite: Werewolf
900 Global: Link
Robby's: Axel
Storm: Tropical Storm
Power Play Bowling: Norm Duke Advantage Gold
Power Play Bowling: Norm Duke Advantage Silver
Ebonite: The One Pearl
Storm: Spit Fire
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Lane Breaker

Most times, the Ebonite stuff stays in the car or at home, as it's generally too much ball. Normally, my pins are between 3 and 4 inches. I don't own a ball with a pin any longer than 4", and I only own three bowling balls (The Break, Virtual Gravity, Invasion) with a pin of 2".

I generally prefer the drillings from the Key Drilling Guide that used to come with the Storm bowling balls, that I've even used on other brands. Most stuff is either their #1 (strong all-around performance) or #2 (maximum flare). I think I've only got one ball that's the #3 drilling (maximum control).

Other than that, I generally take a look at the drill sheet. Pick out one that suits me the best for what I have in mind for the ball and go from there.
_______________
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers..."
- Carl Sagan
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
TheKorean2908

Alrighty then... What I'm seeing is that you want to play up the outside for your comfort zone, but on a short pattern, you've got to switch down to the Tropicals or Links... Which leads to carry problems because those pieces just don't have the hitting power because of their weak diffs.

So let's start with the first shot you throw. This may be old news to you, but maybe some of the other rollers will get some new insight.

To figure out your exit point at the end of the pattern, use the -31 rule.

If the pattern is 40ft. long, you subtract 31, and come to an exit point board 9.

Your first shot should be straight up the 9 board. Depending on how your ball comes off that board at the break, you should be able to adjust quickly, keeping in mind that the ball WILL BREAK at the 9 board... If it gets outside the 9 board too early, it'll hang out there and maybe take out the 10pin, if it gets to the 9 board too late, it'll snap hard, and you'll go Brooklyn.

Same deal with a 35ft. pattern like the 09-10 Cheetah. Take away the 31 and you'll get the 4 board. I like the PBA patterns because they're much flatter than any THS with a much lower ratio of inside board oil to outside board oil.

The listed 09-10 Cheetah ratio is 2:1. The inside boards only have a little more than double the outside boards, and there's an absolute lake in those 35ft. 40 units on average. A THS has an average ratio of 5.5:1, and between 25 and 30 units of oil (which means lots of hold in the middle, and lots of hook on the outside).

With the Cheetah, you see a lot of shiny stuff, and with lots of oil in the front, and people winging shiny pieces, that means carry down. Now you've got to deal with a long, thin pattern late in the day. Time to grab the ball with snow tires, and move in keeping in mind, the breakpoint will still be the 4th board.

Next, let's look at layouts.

If you're up at tournament levels, book layouts aren't going to cut it. You really need to focus in on what the relation of pin to PAP, CG to PAP, and MB to PAP, mean to your specific game.

If your ball is breaking to early, and you're seeing a lot of splits, it means your ball it losing its power before the hit. The revs are dying early from quick roll, and it's not forging a path through the pins, just bouncing off them. What you should be looking at are layouts that reduce the flare potential, and lengthen the pin. Have the ball keep its energy for longer, so it has some juice left when it cracks the pins.

I had bags of equipment go sour because my game changed as of late, and I now track very low. All the well thought out layouts I had suddenly got shortened, and it wasn't until my coach and driller (I never punch up my own equipment anymore) smacked me upside the head, gave me a stronger ball, and pushed a 5.25" x 4" +4" layout on me, that my reaction came back like a tidal wave. My average went from a pedestrian 168, to 203 in 3 weeks.

It's hard to accept drilling that brand new hook beast with a weaker layout, but by doing that, you store up its energy longer so it'll get down the lane, and explode off the break.

I love the outside, straight up and in for the win, but to play that line, you have to match up the layout to the need. No more book for you. Have your speed measured, have your rev rates measured (playing soft and hard), and really focus on making your shot line up with the pattern, line up with the ball, line up with the layout.

Hope some of that gives you a new idea or two... If you want anything more specific, feel free to ask.
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"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 211
Yeah, I had a coach a couple years ago that told me about the -31 rule. For some reason, I remember him mentioning -33 as well? Or maybe I read it somewhere? Eh, whatever... Either way, I generally follow this rule (-31) for medium and long patterns. But for short patterns, I almost always start at 3 and move accordingly. In addition, I'm definitely not hesitant to use the Link, but it seems to even be rolling too early.

Actually, outside is about my weakest part of the lane to play. It's serviceable, but not great. At least, not compared to me playing the track area and inside.

It might not be as much fun as the new Reign I had intended to get, but I'm thinking my next ball will be the Freeze. Any layout recommendations? I'm all ears, especially after the one you suggested for my Lane Breaker, that thing is evil off the dry boards.

My game HAS changed slightly, but only slightly. My rev rate is now in the low to mid-300's (accurate up to last week). I have a medium track, 45 degree tilt, and I'm pretty sure my PAP is 5 1/2 by 1/2 up (for the life of me, I can't remember right now... how sad is that?).

Also, if you have any tips on how to loft the ball with accuracy, I'm having some trouble in that department. I tend to start dropping my shoulder if I try to get some extra loft on it.
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"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers..."
- Carl Sagan
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 542
Location: Orlando Florida
hey, ive been having problems with rolling over my thumb hole ever since ive been making a lot of changes to my game, idk if I posted this to you already lol.
So I pulled out my Cell out of the garage just to use it for practice yesterday, and I started throwing it and I said wow... This ball is hitting really hard and was carrying great, and I was just throwing strike after strike.... So I looked, and my track was NOT over the thumb hole.......... So I said maybe im throwing it different? So I used 4 of my other balls I brought with me, and I was over the thumb hole on ALL 4!

So uhh, idk what this means? The Cell is drilled for me like my other stuff but I don't roll over the thumb hole with that ball ONLY!?
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16 years old
Saturday morning Scratch League avg - 205 (Sport Shots, Finished)
Sunday travel league avg - 215 (Received high avg award)

high series: 792 ( 244, 280, 268 )
high games-300! (01/31/09 I was 15) 278(3 times), 279(18 times)

My Gear-
Hammer: BW Sting
Ebonite: Evolve
Ebonite: Bash
Ebonite: Total Nv
Ebonite: Raid
Ebonite: Striking Motion
Ebonite: Playmaker
Ebonite: Maxim Capt Fireball
Member
Registered: Feb 2008
Posts: 398
Location: Montreal, QC. Canada
TheKorean2908

Versatility is key to the game, so keep working on that outside line, it'll come in handy when patterns fall apart.

A fun layout that I've been playing around with for symmetrical cores, is spotting the CG very close to the thumb, and placing the pin 1/4" - 1/2" negative of the center line. Depending on the pin length, the pin should end up just under your middle finger, and the CG should be on your center line. If the pin is around 3", you should be able to spot your thumb right on it, and still keep the pin above your mid line.

If you use an interchangeable thumb with a bright colour slug, you get a great look at the axis migration as the ball breaks, and finishes by revolving around your thumb hole. But you need to keep the pin above your mid line by at least 1/2". You can keep the pin on your center line, but the key is getting that CG as close to your thumb as possible. If your PAP is 5 1/2" over, then keeping the pin on the center line, but still above the mid line, would be best. The Freeze has a strong Diff (0.047) that will still give you some power with longer pin layouts.

This layout will produce a very late break, that will be smooth, but VERY strong... Don't be surprised if it carries through the 5pin, and takes out the 7 or 8pin. It's a great layout for "Up'n In" lines from the outside to the track.

Now for some lofty advice... See what I did there?

Producing loft has nothing to do with your swing. It's all about your legs and core. To get lofting, you have to figure out what your finish position is comprised of. Do you bend more from the waist, or do you use a deeper knee bend? Do your shoulders sag forward, or do you rotate your shoulders opposite of your hips?

Lofting the ball is just keeping the same arm swing movement, but standing up more at the line. If you use a deep knee bend at the line, try keeping your leg a bit straighter, and your chin up. If you bend at the waist more, try keeping your back straight, and shoulders back. A normal shot should swing past your ankle, and then to loft it, it should swing past your knee, or even mid thigh. The important part is keeping your swing static no matter how tall you stand at the line. If you try to pop the ball up by changing your swing, and timing, and placement, you'll have a much harder time trying to hit your spot. But if you leave your swing alone, and just stand taller at the line, your accuracy shouldn't change.

Hope that helps...

bowlerboi26

So the equipment you're using tracks over your thumb, except for the Cell, and they're mostly laid out the same. This sounds more like a fit problem than anything else. Do you use inserts for your tip grip?

If the ball tracks over your thumb, and not your fingers, you also may have an inverted track. That's when you have a short across PAP measurement, but then a long down/up length. Something like 3 1/2" over, and 1 1/2" up. Your PAP is heavily influenced by your grip, so if the Cell tracks well, and the others don't, it may be as simple as a change of inserts, and correcting the oval pitch of your thumb.

If you adjust those things, and you're still tracking over your thumb, then you have a naturally inverted track, and you've got some work to do to fix it.
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"Sure... I can drill that brand new, top of line, first quality piece with a 6 x 6 + 7... Who needs hook ALL the time? Am I right?" -Stew
Member
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Warren, MI
S2dio I won a super bowl bowling ball raffle and I need your advice on what to get. Right now I have a Big Shot that is drilled to go really long and I can only use it on dry lanes, a raw hammer Psycho for dry lanes, and a Virtual Gravity that I didn't take care of and it pretty much died out. I have medium speed and medium revs and I usually play the outside of the lane. A couple of balls I've been looking at are the pure swing, total bedlam, and c-system 3.5.
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High Game - 300
High Series - 803 (265, 238, 300)
Arsenal:Columbia Pure Swing, Storm Virtual Gravity, Raw Hammer Psycho, Columbia Big Shot

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