Bowling Evolution Forum

Bowling Evolution Forum - Development - buying 1.08?

buying 1.08?

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Member
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 118
when/if the 1.09 comes out do i have to pay for that to if i already bought the 1.08?
_______________
arsenal: Track The rising
Columbia 300 wrath dead flush
Storm Black Ice
Lane Hawk slot machine (its 14lb so i dont use it)


High game:1 game 279
3 games 680
4 games 916
Average : 180,5


Arguing over the internet is like competing in the paralympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded
Moderator
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Finland
hi johan,

no, you don't have to buy license again for version updates!

Thanks,
Vesa
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 78
How do I pay for this game ? I enter in my user name and password, and it keeps saying it's invalid. I don't get it. Also, do I have to pay in Euros?

Thanks
Member
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 118
thx :P
_______________
arsenal: Track The rising
Columbia 300 wrath dead flush
Storm Black Ice
Lane Hawk slot machine (its 14lb so i dont use it)


High game:1 game 279
3 games 680
4 games 916
Average : 180,5


Arguing over the internet is like competing in the paralympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 13
I have the same problem with logging in to buy the game. It keep saying invalid login. I have even tried making a new login, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Member
Registered: Apr 2009
Posts: 54
what are the bonuses to buying the game? As to not buying the game? What do we get for buying? and how much is it? i havent dont any research, this was just easier to ask.
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 78
KevinDSimon wrote
I have the same problem with logging in to buy the game. It keep saying invalid login. I have even tried making a new login, but that doesn't seem to work either.


Exactly what happens to me. I hope someone comes here and helps us out!
Moderator
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Finland
KevinDSimon wrote
I have the same problem with logging in to buy the game. It keep saying invalid login. I have even tried making a new login, but that doesn't seem to work either.


it's fixed now, sorry!

FastTracker33 wrote
How do I pay for this game ? I enter in my user name and password, and it keeps saying it's invalid. I don't get it. Also, do I have to pay in Euros?


You can pay via PayPal. It's explained after login ;)
The price is 12 EUR, but you can pay in dollars also (about 16 USD). PayPal handles currency conversion.

thanks,
Vesa
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 78
Vesa,

I can't even get to the part where I have to pay. My user name here, FastTracker33, along with my email address, revolutions9110@gmail.com, does NOT work. I try to reset my password, so I can buy, but that doesn't work either. I can successfully log-in to my user name with my password, but it will not let me buy this game, because I guess i'm not a "player" as it states.

Please help.
Moderator
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Finland
Now it should work, there was one more place what I forget to fix. sorry again.
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 78
I still cannot reset my password or buy the game. I guess i'm out of luck. I'd really like to play online and all. If there's any other way I can buy it, let me know please.

thanks for trying to help
Moderator
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Finland
FastTracker33 wrote
I still cannot reset my password or buy the game. I guess i'm out of luck. I'd really like to play online and all. If there's any other way I can buy it, let me know please.


You had different email address in your player profile, that's why resetting password didn't work.

Vesa
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 78
Thank you for the fast response time! I'm so happy now. Only 3 months of online time though? what happens after 3 months?
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 13
Hi,

i'm really disappointed about the recurring costs.
The game is not done yet and yet we have to pay roughly 50 euros a year to be able to play online.
You should've mentioned that on the 'buy' page, i didn't know before.
It's unlikely that i will purchase extra playing time after my 3 months, this will eventually kill the online activity of this game.
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 134
hello, no it will not be 12eur / 3 months after the initial registration. We will update the buy info asap so that all this is very clear there.

We planned price of 12eur / 6 months after the initial registration+3 month period... But because the game and online features are not ready enough yet, we will extend the initial period also to 6 months. We will add 3 months for those players who have already registered.

I hope it sounds better?
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Florida USA
I'm still playing the beta lol
_______________
Average - 180 - that's also having only played on PBA shots, and/or sport shots during practice. I am unaware of my THS average
High Game - 278

Arsenal:
Storm Virtual Gravity
Storm Rapid Fire Pearl *NEW*
Columbia 300 White Dot

Shoes:
New Dexter SST8's
Member
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
It's so very clear now why this was never released as open source. It seemed like the proper thing to do. It would have sped up the development process and would have let the players decide the future of the game. I feared that this would happen. And it's very likely this will be the last version that you can even play for free. Most likely the next version will be 100% payware, and seeing how outlandish the price for simple online play is now, imagine what the full game will cost. I agree that this has potential to be a great game but it's definitely not worth $50 per year.
_______________
If I am a nobody and nobody is perfect, wouldn't that make me perfect?
Matt Graham
Moderator
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 535
Location: Sweden
I don't mind that they want to make some money from all the time they put into the game, I think they deserve that, but I still have to somewhat agree with the previous posters. It's to early and to much, the game is barely half-finished. There's still a lot to do with physics, graphics and features before the game is worth paying for, at least that size of payment. This game has aimed for realism and realism in bowling is extremely hard to achieve (obviously) and people do bowl for real so they can tell when it's not 100%. It's not like a Fantasy RPG or a First Person Shooter where minor issues can pass unnoticed because no one (or few) got any real experiences to compare with, it's accepted as design choices, this game has to be perfect or at least very close. And at the moment it's not close enough, at least not by my standards, it's still an early beta.
Member
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
There's a lot of people that would be more than willing to pay by donation to reward the developers and see this game take off. The fact that this game used to tout being completely free is enough to drive most of those people away.
_______________
If I am a nobody and nobody is perfect, wouldn't that make me perfect?
Matt Graham
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 134
Hello, my answers for all above comments here:

> It's so very clear now why this was never released as open source. It seemed like the proper thing to do.

We are not interested in releasing the game as open source. I don't see how it would be wrong for us to keep it closed source and remain as the sole owner of a game that we have built ourselves.

> And it's very likely this will be the last version that you can even play for free. Most likely the next version will be 100% payware, and seeing how outlandish the price for simple online play is now, imagine what the full game will cost.

All basic features that were existent in 1.07 are free in 1.08. They're free also in 1.09 that we released after your post, effectively making your assumption of next version being 100% payware fail already ;)

Also, there are different kinds of online playing related services and we will be creating new:

1) services for players who have online playing time left
2) services for players who have once bought a registration
3) totally free

Thus you will be continuously getting extra after the initial registration eaven if you don't continuously purchase more online playing time.

Finally, for the time being 12 EUR is the price of the full game including 6 months of playing time. It includes version upgrades.

> And what does the $50 buy: the "inestimable privilege" of competing online? Just more "bells and whistles" in an otherwise still flawed game.

More bells and whistles if you like but substantially cheaper :)

We decided to add payable features for players who like this game (and want to support the development) instead of charging every player for the use of basic features. This way also the buying players (supporters) will get value for their money.

This should be friendly approach for everybody as the support money will be helping keep up the development in all areas (basic features and payable features). By "everybody" I mean free riders, buying players and us, the company developing this game.

> It seems like the developers completely ignored all of the constuctive suggestions made by forum members to improve the realism of the game.

No, we have not ignored them. We just did some priorization for version 1.08 in order not to starve the project of our interest completely.

Now that we have set up a company and have some income from the game I at least am much more motivated to invest more time to it than before.

Next we will do priorization for version 1.10 and I think there will be many suggestions that we'll implement that will improve the realism. Players can also expect much faster version upgrades than before ( as we already finished MAJOR refactoring between 1.07 and 1.08 ).

> There's a lot of people that would be more than willing to pay by donation to reward the developers and see this game take off. The fact that this game used to tout being completely free is enough to drive most of those people away.

We want to give some extra for those who pay for the game. I think it is very fair for everyone, eaven the free riders.

The comments that I did not answer here are IMO factors that everyone should weight individually. To buy the game or not is a decision that everyone can make for himself.
Member
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Tomi wrote
I don't see how it would be wrong for us to keep it closed source and remain as the sole owner of a game that we have built ourselves.

I never said it was wrong. I'm just saying that if you did release the source code that it would be easier for the community to help you. Let the players decide what they want in the game. That is what this about, right, the game and its players?
Tomi wrote
All basic features that were existent in 1.07 are free in 1.08. They're free also in 1.09 that we released after your post, effectively making your assumption of next version being 100% payware fail already ;)

You're right. I shouldn't have made it that easy for you to prove me wrong. I should have said that in the future the game will either be 100% payware or the free version will be crippled to the point that it has no lasting appeal. Please, prove me wrong.
Tomi wrote
No, we have not ignored [all of the constuctive suggestions]. We just did some priorization for version 1.08 in order not to starve the project of our interest completely.

Prioritization? So, setting up online tournaments, ball configurators, and paid registration is more important than the physics? Granted, you've made leaps and bounds in the physics but the simple things like building the lane to USBC specification seemed to slip through. As MasterTech said, the work has even been done for you by a forum member!
Tomi wrote
Now that we have set up a company and have some income from the game I at least am much more motivated to invest more time to it than before.

There are so many forum members with such great ideas that would be glad to contribute their time to the project. Why do all the work yourself?
Tomi wrote
We want to give some extra for those who pay for the game.

Simple. Recognize those who donate.
_______________
If I am a nobody and nobody is perfect, wouldn't that make me perfect?
Matt Graham
Member
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Florida USA
Well I mean you DO have to give it to these guys....They DON'T have to even release this game at all...
_______________
Average - 180 - that's also having only played on PBA shots, and/or sport shots during practice. I am unaware of my THS average
High Game - 278

Arsenal:
Storm Virtual Gravity
Storm Rapid Fire Pearl *NEW*
Columbia 300 White Dot

Shoes:
New Dexter SST8's
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 134
Matt Graham wrote
Tomi wrote
I don't see how it would be wrong for us to keep it closed source and remain as the sole owner of a game that we have built ourselves.

I never said it was wrong. I'm just saying that if you did release the source code that it would be easier for the community to help you. Let the players decide what they want in the game. That is what this about, right, the game and its players?


Releasing the game as open source does not mean that the new open source project will automatically start doing exactly what players want. Good project steering is needed, be the game open source or not.

Open source might (or might not) give us more development resources. But also think about other factors such as...

- what it would mean for our newly found company to release the game as open source
- commitment of open source developers *of a bowling game* vs paid developers

Matt Graham wrote
Tomi wrote
All basic features that were existent in 1.07 are free in 1.08. They're free also in 1.09 that we released after your post, effectively making your assumption of next version being 100% payware fail already ;)

You're right. I shouldn't have made it that easy for you to prove me wrong. I should have said that in the future the game will either be 100% payware or the free version will be crippled to the point that it has no lasting appeal. Please, prove me wrong.


In the future the whole internet will be gone. Please prove me wrong :)

... in other words: the future always contains large factors of uncertainty. Only time will show what happens. In my opinion it would be very unwise for us to give any guarantee to continue giving bowling evolution for free indefinitely.

Matt Graham wrote
Tomi wrote
No, we have not ignored [all of the constuctive suggestions]. We just did some priorization for version 1.08 in order not to starve the project of our interest completely.

Prioritization? So, setting up online tournaments, ball configurators, and paid registration is more important than the physics? Granted, you've made leaps and bounds in the physics but the simple things like building the lane to USBC specification seemed to slip through. As MasterTech said, the work has even been done for you by a forum member!


Exactly. As I explained in my earlier post, it was more important to add the payable features at this point than continue working extensively on physics -- otherwise our own interest into this project would likely be near to none. We as owners of this game are also very interested about the longer term future, not only version 1.08.

What comes to the lane issue, we have long since planned to add a feature to the game for switching between bowling halls instead of trying to make a perfect bowling hall ourselves. Making this kind of feature is not hard at all. If someone lets us release his/her custom bowling hall as additional official level, we will give him recognition and credit for that.

Matt Graham wrote
Tomi wrote
Now that we have set up a company and have some income from the game I at least am much more motivated to invest more time to it than before.

There are so many forum members with such great ideas that would be glad to contribute their time to the project. Why do all the work yourself?


We gladly accept contributions eg. to game content. We will also give recognition for people who contribute as can be seen from the news section.

Matt Graham wrote
Tomi wrote
We want to give some extra for those who pay for the game.

Simple. Recognize those who donate.


Additional features give better value for money.

We could continue debating over these issues till the end of time but I don't think there would be any real benefit. None of the ideas that you have thrown here are really good enough to convince me to change the direction where we are headed at with BE. Additionally I and Vesa are making the decisions so that is what matters in the end.

At this point I think I've explained my opinions well enough for most people to understand so I'll rest my case. I'll join the conversation if some new issues rise. This is just to save time for more productive work, sorry.

Forum members are welcome to discuss these with each other though! :)
Member
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 173
Well... I feel that Matt, you should cool things down a bit... It is after all their game and it is their choice as to where the direction of the game will be. I can understand some of your points but bashing them like that doesn't make things better.

To Tomi: All my PBA and skatepark levels are at your disposal. If you want to include them in your next version, then so be it. Just give credit to me somewhere. (: And if you would like me to replace the adverts and PBA logo for something fake in case of copyright issues, then I will do it for you too. Good luck for this project and I believe this game will fulfil its potential someday.
_______________
I hate spammers.
I do bowl.
My average revs as measured on CATS: 450rpm
My house pattern average: 220
My high game: 300 on a house pattern , 279 on a sport shot
Member
Registered: May 2009
Posts: 13
Forget the bowling alley and graphics in general, imho the next release should fixate on realistic physics.
Currently i regularly get a pin all the way back to the approach area or on other lanes.
One time i even managed to get the ball back on the lane.
Also the pin reaction isn't that realistic at the moment, perfect balls often result in 6-7 splits or 7-10 spits that shouldn't be able to happen if you look at the entry, especially pinaction from the 2 and 5 pin is not entirely realistic.
This all is from a lefty's point of view.

As for the rants in this topic.. if you don't like paying for the game.. well, then don't.
The only issue i had with paying for the game is the 'online playing time' attached to it as a recurring fee which wasn't made clear on the Buy page, but as it's mentioned there now i see no problems at all.
Releasing the game as open source would kill the community imho as several forks would probably be released by some individuals.
If this would stay a free game it would be an option but if you want to have ppl pay for some of the functions you don't want to opensource it as some clever mind will probably add the online functionality from scratch and charge nothing for it.

Paying for the game however creates expectations so i'd love to see the details ingame finished in some time now (eg. have a pin sweeper, more realistic pinaction and such)
« Last edit by Mental on Mon May 25, 2009 4:44 pm. »

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